Actos and Avandia
This Discussion Forum is for discussion of Actos (pioglitazone) and Avandia (rosiglitazone), both of which are in a class of diabetes medications called "TZDs" (thiazolidinediones) or "glitazones".
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I'm currently using Actos, should I discuss with my doctor about stopping it?
Thanks,
John (Comment this)
That said, the recent NEJM article (CLICK HERE) was specifically about Avandia, and the authors stated that Actos was different:
"The question as to whether the observed risks of rosiglitazone represent a "class effect" of thiazolidinediones must also be considered. Pioglitazone is a related agent also widely used to treat type 2 diabetes mellitus. However, unlike rosiglitazone, pioglitazone has been studied in a prospective, randomized trial of cardiovascular outcomes, called Prospective Pioglitazone Clinical Trial in Macrovascular Events (PROACTIVE). The primary end point, a broad composite that included coronary and peripheral vascular events, showed a trend toward benefit from pioglitazone (hazard ratio, 0.90; P=0.095). A secondary end point consisting of myocardial infarction, stroke, and death from any cause showed a significant effect favoring pioglitazone (hazard ratio, 0.84; P=0.027). Notably, pioglitazone appears to have more favorable effects on lipids, particularly triglycerides, than does rosiglitazone."
Hope this helps! (Comment this)
CLICK HERE
Is there any information other than the rather sketchy media bulletin? I would like to get answers for the following questions:
1) Does Avandia increase the risk of a heart attack only when taking the drug or does the increased risk remain after you stop taking the drug? (examples of other drugs would include: Vioxx - increased risk of heart attack stopped when you quit taking the drug, versus Phenfen - apparently resulted in permanent heart valve damage, thus increase in risk continued)
2) The FDA bulletin reported that GlaxoSmithKline pooled analysis indicated that "short-term" treatment (defined as 6 months) suggested an increase of 30-40 percent for risk of a heart attack. What if you have taken Avandia for a longer period of time (in the past or still currently using)?
3) Has there been any preliminary identification of testing that may be able to indicate potential damage or increased risk conditions?
Hope someone has some answers. Thanks,
(Comment this)
I have not seen any data to indicate that Avandia causes damage to the heart muscle itself. However, Avandia is known to cause edema in some cases, and in severe cases this can lead to congestive heart failure. So, right there you have a risk for cardiac arrest. Furthermore, Avandia is known to cause weight gain, which is another contributing factor to heart disease. Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that there is an increased risk of heart attack with Avandia. These risks are small, though, and must be compared to the risk of not treating the diabetes.
Ironically, most people were afraid of Avandia because of fear of liver damage (as with Rezulin).
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I then changed to actos which worked better than the avandia but still caused me to have edema and weight gain.
I did not start to loose weight untill I got off of the actos and started on byetta.
I now have ankle bones that I can see and shape to my calves again.
I am very glad I no longer use those drugs. If byetta had not been a choice I would have gone to insulin just to get off of them and the glipizide.
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Hope this helps!
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Doctors who now proscribe TZD's like Avandia (which clearly cause weight gain)rather than Byetta for their overweight T2 diabetic patients, unfortunately will probably not be moved by the additional evidence that Avandia causes heart disiease to switch to Byetta. Only the removal of TZDs from the market will cause such (mal)practioners to abandon TZDs for Byetta.
It is thought that cramming too much fat into each fat cell interferes with the ability of insulin to take glucose from the blood and deposit into the fat stores in the fat cells. That is why T2 diabetes is associated with obesity (although if the cause of the obesity was a deficiency of incretins such as GLP-1, the causality is not clear). TZDs like Avandia allow more glucose to be taken from the bloodstream and be deposited as fat stores in the fat cells. Possibly Avandia does this by promoting the growth of new juvenile fat cells which have not yet been filled to their limit with fat and thus can recieve more (just what obese people need, not!)
For an overwieght T2 diabetic, the decision process involved with taking a TZD like Avandia is like waking up in bed on a freezing winter morning with two problems: 1. you have to pee, and 2. its too cold to get out of bed. Taking Avandia is like addressing the 2 problems by peeing in bed rather that getting up to go to the bathroom. It gives some short term relief to both problems but ultimately puts you in a worse situation.
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FYI:
Dear Doctor
I am writing to inform you that I have discontinued the use of Actos for treatment of my Diabetes. My next appointment is not until August and I can’t wait till then to get off this brutal medicine. I’ve been dieting and exercising and not losing weight. I can only attribute it to Actos as all the reading I’ve done and from the countless others who denounce this medicine as a weight gaining drug. My own experience also shows that I lost 52 pounds while on Byetta before after you took me off Actos. We added it back several months ago and the weight gain went up although part of it was due to my diet. However, now with diet my weight is still stagnating or even up some. Below are my current medicines.
Byetta 10X 2 , Amyral 6mg Daily,Metformin 2000 MG ER, Nexuim 40 MG, Diovan 80/12.5, Tricor 145 Mg, Lipitor 20MG,Niacin, 500 Mg, Fish Oil 1200 MG x 3
Please call my Pharmacy Wal-Mart 770-591-9402 if you want to add anything to this. Please understand I REFUSE to take Actos it’s not an option. This drug is a bad one the evidence on the internet from other diabetics is overwhelming.
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Tony,
Besides weight gain, which seems to be one of the major complaints regarding Actos, could you elaborate on the other negative side effects. I'm concerned because I recently started using Actos.
I read that it actually helps against heart attacks and strokes, compared to Avandia.
So far it hasn't impacted my BS numbers, I don't want to get stuck on this stuff if it does more harm than good.
Thanks,
John (Comment this)
I have done everything they have told me because I don't want to taken insulin shots. So, if Actos is bad news, what can I do now...wait for the heart attack? (Comment this)
I have been on Avandia for at least 6 years (5 years at 8 mg and 4 mg since last August). I gained a little weight on Avandia, but I gained ALOT more weight on Lantus, so don't count on Lantus to save you in the weight gain department. My complaint with Avandia has been the Edema, which I had quite noticeably in my ankles on the 8 mg of Avandia. It is less pronounced on the 4 mg. Similarly some joint pains I had had in my knee and shoulder and fingers has diminished after decreasing the Avandia. For these reasons, and possibly for weight gain, I, too, would like to drop the Avandia. I would not mind injecting a bit more Lantus to make up for it.
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I think it makes me feel very sluggish. could be my imagination but I do know that the weight gain is enough to make it intolerable. (Comment this)
Yes, I gained on lantus too so wish to stay away. Right now I am injecting Novalog when my numbers get to high after eating etc. I'm hoping getting off Actos will help me lose weight as I did before when getting off of it and Lantus and onto Byetta the miracle injection. I agree though it's best to not use any insulin. My Doctor upped the Amyral when I fired Actos. (Comment this)
In March I started Byetta. Hail to the LIzard. for the first time in years I see numbers below 100. So I think my favorite Doc will understand that when the report came out I stopped the Avandia. Feeling better already I am, I am. Ankles are shrinking along with belly. Its been a week now and my numbers are actually improving. Other good things are happening also which I will report on later.
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There is a very active Byetta discussion forum. Look at the column to the right, #8, Current Discussion Forums at Diabetes.Blog.com, and #16, for Byetta Basics. (Comment this)
I have been on Avandia for 4 yrs, in the last 8 mos I've developed edema of my lower legs,ankles and feet. Today my Dr switched me to Actos, saying it did not cause edema. But after reading some of these entries as well as reading about Actos on the net, apparently it can. I wanted to ask you how the Byetta is working for you?
Sincerely, Darcy
DianeW in Washington, t2-2003, Byetta 10-2007, Metformin 850 X3, levemir, , (Comment this)
Come over to the byetta island and I will have a comment for your ? there (Comment this)
Darcy (Comment this)
I've not tried or had the experience of januvia but it would be better than the actos if you are still having the edema.
Anything else is better than the edema in my book! (Comment this)
I would think much better for your health to stop the medication that causes the edema in the first place than having another one added to counter its effects.
Lasix and other diuretics are hard on the kidneys and will up set your electrolyte balance.
I say ditch the actos! (Comment this)
What other diabetes meds are you taking? (Certainly not only Avandia/Actos?) Januvia does not work the same way that Avandia/Actos do. It does not improve insulin resistance, but can help control bg by a similar mechanism to Byetta.
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James in MA, T2 1998; Byetta 5mcg 4/07, 10mcg 5/07; Lantus 10/04, (Novolog 5/05-4/07), Metformin 3x850mg, Avandia 4 mg. , (Comment this)
Did you experience any problems with hair loss while on the advandmet? (Comment this)
Darcy (Comment this)
Only on Avandia? Wow, that is uncommon. Usually people are on a sulfonylurea and/or metformin together with Avandia, usually because people start with sulfonylureas (like Glyburide, etc.) when they get diagnosed.
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You mention some of the stats from the study including:
"the study gathered trials and reports from other studies to compare 15,550 people using Avandia to 12,283 people on other diabetes meds or nothing. Most had poorly controlled diabetes. 86 of the Avandia people had heart attacks, while 72 of the others did. 39 of the Avandia people died of heart-related problems vs. 22 of the other people."
Although these sound like small numbers they are based on meta-studies that are believed to be a reliable cross-segment of the population. The first part of the study (had heart attacks) had a statistical significance of .03, which is very statistically relavent. The second part of the study (heart related issues) was found to be statistically insignificant with a sig. of .06. Therefore, only the second part of the study is what the authors were referring to as being non-relevant.
Still very scary numbers. I plan on getting off Avandia as soon as I can get in to see my doctor. (Comment this)
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Matthew J. Brady, University of Chicago, Department of Medicine, identifies IRS2 as a brier to insulin effectiveness. http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/full/114/7/886 See Figure 1 on the web page, it is a good illustration of insulin resistance.
Read “The Development of an Extract of Artemisia dracunculus L. for decreasing the insulin resistance associated with diabetes, from concept to clinic.David M. Ribnicky1, Alexander Poulev, Sithes Logendra1, William T. Cefalu, Zhong Q. Wang, Ilya Raskin Biotech Center, Cook College, Rutgers University, 59 Dudley Road, New Brunswick, NJ 08901-8520, USA2 Pennington Biomedical Research Center/ Louisiana State University, 6400 Perkins Road, Baton Rouge, LA 70808. http://raskin8500-226.rutgers.edu/~alexanderpoulev/GRC.pdf.
Review “Method for treating type 2 diabetes with an extract of Artemisia
US Patent Issued on May 17, 2005 US Patent 6350478.” http://www.google.com/patents?id=s80JAAAAEBAJ&dq=US+Patent+6350478
Trace this into the Human Genome “GeneCard for protein-coding IRS2 GC13M109204”
http://www.genecards.org/cgi-bin/carddisp.pl?gene=Irs2
You will believe that Tarragon the kitchen spice known as Artemisia dracunculus L. is a superb insulin sensitizer and a potential substitute for Actos and Avandia or a complementary second pathway for insulin sensitivity.
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I really hope you continue to be successful on Actos and make sure you include a good diet, exercise, and stress management into your lifestyle. Those will really help in the long run the most. (Comment this)