Meals, eating, and nutrition
This is the 2nd Discussion Forum dedicated to this subject, and is a continuation of the previous forum on this subject. It was started on October 24, 2006, after what we call a “blogquake” happened — namely, the software underlying this blog became unstable and shook everybody up!
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Pat M:
Now that you mention it, I’ve experienced a similar phenomenon with my fbs. I hadn’t really connected it before, but yes my fbs reflects the rest of the day and reflects what I’ve eaten in the previous 48 hours.
Pat M. Byetta 5 2x, metformin 500 mg 3x, lantus 40 u, I have never noticed that. Meaning the average stays around the fbgs each day. If that were the case my A1C should have been much lower. My numbers are reflective of what I’m eating that day, not what I ate days before. I’ve had high fbgs and been able to get the rest of the days testing numbers to be much lower because of what I have eaten, and unfortunately visa versa. But the one thing I’ve learned from this blog is that we are all so different. Whats what for one isn’t necessarily whats what for another.
I noticed that you say you only eat twice per day plus a bedtime snack. Is there a reason for that? Just curious as to why you only eat 2 meals per day.
geri in co:Byetta 10(3.06), Glucophage XR, Glucotrol XL,
For me, two decent meals a day works just fine. I usually eat breakfast around 8 a.m. and my dinner is usually between 3p.m. – 4p.m. I have no appetite in between, and I don’t eat between meals. In the evening around 10 p.m. I have a small snack between 10-15 carbs.
Since being on Byetta, for example, yesterday my fbs was 112. The highest I saw it go during the day was 161, but after reaching its peak, it returned close to that 112 mark. Actually, at bedtime last night it was 112 as well.
Today, my fbs was 102, and I know my bs will peak about 4 hrs or so after I eat, but then it will return to about 102 again. The same will happen after dinner, and hopefully at bedtime. My Lantus seems to help greatly with the dawn phenomenon. Since Byetta, my morning fbs is usually not much different than my bedtime bs. I have reduced my Lantus, and I’m hoping for better results with more exercise. I think we can only hope and work for the best result.
Pat M: I’m interested in what specifically you eat at 10 pm. I can’t stop eating at that hour because I come home from job 2, and I need something before sleeping. If I don’t eat late, I will wake up around 3 am with terrible stomach pain. It’s always difficult to find suitable bedtime snacks.
I’ve discovered that whatever I eat from 6:30 or so pm shows up in my fbs. The peaking time for you is interesting because I think I’ve noticed this, too. My endo wants testing at 2 hours post prandial.
Also, I’ve finally discovered that sugar alcohols are a super problem. It acts like pure refined sugar on me. At least I found a culprit.
I’m also interested in your two times a day meals. That seems natural to me, too, but my work day doesn’t really allow it. I’m going to experiment. Interesting conversation.
Pat from LI, Although we are suppose to eat 3 meals per day to help keep our bgs level I have gone a few days per week without eating lunch because of my schedule, before surgery when I was on the spit. I never had a problem and my numbers were always good but I didn’t miss lunch on purpose. I’m going to think about this after I’m done healing as long as I get the calorie count in.
Have you thought about trying the extendbars for your evening snack? I’m finding that they do work well for me if I’m eating them at night, not enough for a snack for during the day when I’m more active. I’ve also tried one of those microwave single serve popcorn/raw almonds.
Pat from LI,
Hi Pat,
For a bedtime snack, I try to keep the carbs to 15 or less. Mott’s makes “Natural” apple sauce with no sugar added. It has 12 carbs.
Del Monte makes a no sugar added Diced Peaches that have 6 carbs. I like the peaches, but to make it more interesting (all the purists should close their eyes now), I add one crumbled up Pepperidge Farm Chessmen cookie. I know this is considered a “simple” carb, but I believe if we deprive ourselves of everything, it isn’t good either. One cookie has 6 carbs, so the peaches with the cookie are 12 carbs. I also like the sugar free yogurts, Dannon Lite & Fit has 11 carbs. Some of the sugar free puddings are also low carb. All of these are in the small individual containers.
I live in Chicago and within a couple of months we will begin to have the Farmers Markets here. I buy strawberries in June and all of the other berries throughout the summer. Berries of any kind don’t seem to raise my bs very much, unlike bananas which will kick up my bs quite a bit. To make fruit more interesting, add a very small amount of Lite Cool Whip, it is very low carb. I also find apples to be filling, and usually a few slices are all I need.
If I were truly very hungry, I could make a half sandwich, one slice of bread with peanut butter. I use Healthy Life bread, two slices have 16 grams of carb (net carbs are supposed to be 6 grams of carb, but I don’t consider net carbs, I don’t trust that it is that low).
I only eat 2 meals a day and the snack at bedtime. For example, yesterday for breakfast, I had scrambled eggs, 2 slices of toast, a slice of ham leftover from Easter, and the diced peaches. I figure that is a total of 22 carbs. For me this is filling. For dinner I had a small lettuce and tomato salad, 2 meatballs with some marinara sauce and about a 6 inch piece of Italian bread. For the most part, the only carbs were in the bread, and a very small amount in the sauce. Again, more than enough food for me. My bs stayed nice and low all day, and this morning my fbs was 93.
For the most part, I have been eating 2 meals a day for a couple of years, but I had been eating more food, and also food that I shouldn’t have had. Byetta has been a huge help over these past 3 weeks. My numbers become more consistent every day, I don’t have the wide swings.
I realize this is a major lifestyle change, but as far as food, I feel good with the amount I am eating. My energy is picking up quite a bit with very little nausea now.
I agree with everyone who says a snack at bedtime is important. I have found that to be true over the almost 7 yrs I have been diabetic. With no bedtime snack, my fbs would be much higher.
Hope this helps a bit!
Margaret, it is worth trying to eat fewer carbs to see if your mom’s numbers will go down. I don’t think that everyone does well with the same amount of carb intake and it is an individual thing. I feel that less is better than more sometimes but you have to try it and test and see if there is a difference.
Pat M. Byetta 5 2x, metformin 500 mg 3x, lantus 40 u, I find just the opposite about snacking before bed. If I have nothing to eat after dinner I find my fbs the next morning to usually be better and if I have something before bed they tend to be higher. I’ve always had high fasting readings but over the last several months they have come down and are much better. I’m not really doing anything different except possibly eating less for dinner. But like most of us agree we are all different. We have to see what works best for us.
Pat M. Byetta 5 2x, metformin 500 mg 3x, lantus 40 u, I don’t find that my blood sugar readings reflect what my fbs shows in the morning. When I am high when I first test the numbers go down during the day and don’t stay up. Of course my numbers still tend to fluctuate a good bit but I test a lot to see what they are doing.
I have found that stress is worse on my numbers than food. If only I could control that as well as I can control the eating then I would be doing OK.
Susan, Byetta5x2,Metformin,GlipizideXL,ToprolXL, Lisinopril, HCTZ,Zetia & Omeprazolw,
I have always found that a very small snack at bedtime has helped with my fbs. Even when I was only on glipizide and nothing else. I never understood why this happens, but somebody on this list suggested that it might be because with a snack, the liver might not be putting out glucose during the night.
But remember, right now I also take Lantus at bedtime. I have cut that dose from 65 units to 35 units and my fbs is still good.
What I have found is that for instance, if my fbs is 110, after my bs peaks the number will settle back down close to 110. When my fbs was a little higher, say around 135, after peaking the number settled back down close to 135.
I do watch my carbs and keep them pretty low, and it has made a big difference for me. Being on Byetta, my 14 day average on my meter has now dropped from 166 to 125 in three weeks time. I know the metformin and Lantus are helping, along with Byetta. My goal is to see if I can get off the insulin altogether.
Good Luck to you!
Pat M. Byetta 5 2x, metformin 500 mg 3x, lantus 35 u, My doctor tells me to take a small snack before bed but for me it just doesn’t seem to work. I don’t take insulin so it’s not the same as what you go through but then we are all different anyhow. I do feel that Byetta has made a big difference though and that even if I still have some highs they are not like they used to be.
Maybe one day we will all be able to get off meds or else take much less of them. It is so nice to know there is hope for that. I guess we just need to keep trying to do the best we can and try different things to see if any changes in our diet or routine will work even better. Good luck to you.
Susan, Your evening experience is the same as mine. Last night I walked 4 miles and hadn’t eaten for five hours. My sugar was at 120. I ate winter squash, one sausage, and a high fiber, fairly low carb muffin. That was at about 8pm. My fbs was 225!
I cannot eat after 6:30 or 7 without it affecting my fbs. In desperation I’ve added humalog before bed. It brings significant improvements in my fbs. I’d like to get off the insulin, but probably cannot.
Unless I start 15 ml of Byetta or three shots, I still have fbs issues if I eat in the evening.
Susan, You and I seem to have the same genes. David talks alot about genes. Stress is ruining my diabetic efforts. Even insignificant stress causes huge jumps in readings. It is really unmanageable.
Pat from LI, maybe you should try eating fewer carbs for dinner or eat more protein than you do. It sounds like the squash and low carb muffin might have been too much for you. I’m really not up on nutrition but know that too many carbs for me pushes my numbers up but too little also does it and the right balance is hard to determine for me. It’s a guessing game most of the time.
Mom is trying sooooooooooo hard to get her numbers down. I think we need to go see the doctor. I am Canadian, so I am going to attempt to talk in your USA numbers. When mom eats about 30 grams of carbs, Moms after meal numbers are usually a 18 to 36 spike. Then it goes back down. Is this normal? Sometimes it does not go up at all. Need to know my facts when walking into the doctors office. Mom will say nothing … it will be up to me to do the talking.
With exercise and diet, moms numbers went from 522 down to 126 to 180. They have went back up to 198 to 288.
Any info will help…
Margaret: Good for you both trying to find the proper diet. Is she aware that it is not just the amount of carbs but also the kinds of carbs that make a difference? Simple carbs cause numbers to spike worse than complex carbs. Low glycemic index carbs are even better. Also, eating a bit of protein with any carbs helps to slow the spike. You can learn about the glycemic index and the best foods to eat at David Mendosa’s Web site. Start here: The Glycemic Index.
Thank-you, carb, fiber, protien…every meal and snack. David Mendosa’s Web site, I will check that out. I have seen that name a few times while on this site.
How do you know how many times to eat and snack? I am wondering if mom is eating to many times in a day? Maybe if there was more time between eating the numbers would have a chance to drop down…
Margaret: You sound so worried; I think this is hard on both of you. I know it’s scary. But like Steve said on the other forum, nothing works immediately. You have to give it some time. Just 3 regular meals with a couple of snacks is normal. Have you ever heard of ExtendBars? They are made as a good snack for people with diabetes. You can buy them online. They have helped many people to improve BGs. Your mother might like them, although some people don’t. It’s also ok to eat extremely low carb for some meals/snacks–like just a handful of raw almonds.
toneylee in va,
I do worry about my mom. She has been battling heath issues for 10 years. Diabetes for the past year. She is on a farm in Saskatchewan. No internet. No help but me and I am 4 hours away. You guys are my life line right now. Mom has almonds for the bedtime snack. It works about 75% of the time in lower morning numbers.
If mom gets dizzy from meds…she would not know it. She some times feels funny so she takes her blood to check it.
Margaret: You know what I think could help the most? A certified diabetes educator (CDE) or maybe a nutritionist who specializes in diabetes. Maybe the doctor would give her a referral. I think if you could take her even for one visit, it would be beneficial.
Margaret,
I want to add to tony’s response. If you can not get an appointment with a dietician in Canada and if you are not to far from the US border you may want to make an appointment with one in the US. It probably would cost about $200US or less but the advice is priceless when you are speaking about controlling your diabetes. A dietician can help her develop a healthy plan that fits her lifestyle and medical needs. If she has any cooking for one or two cookbooks bring them to the appointment. So that the dietician can help her adapt the recipes.
Sorry toneylee I messed your name up in my response to margaret.
clk
Margaret,
I have read on the various sites and confirmed with my endo. During the day I am not supposed to go more than 5 hours without eating. When I eat I am to eat both carb and either fat or protein at every meal.
Some people divide their meals and eat a little bit every 2-3 hours. I find this difficult when you need to do your after meal bg test at 2 hours and have meetings at work.
I do eat a late night snack about 10-15 carb and a little protein and that prevents high bg in am as long as my before bed bg is ok.
Also if I do not eat enough carb my liver will compensate and then I end up with bg over 200.
cindy
Just diagnosed recently. On diet and excersie.Much over weight. Average a1c is around 6.1. No meds yet.
I have really learned more from this blog than almost any one of the blogs I have read. Very informative from real people who walk the walk. Thank you for this wonderful resoure. I have just been diagnosed with diabetes 6 or 7 months ago. One of my biggist problems is dawn phenomenon. I tried different combos of things like others. Then I tried ezeikiel bread with a swipe of peanut butter. Magic happened for me. My morning numbers dropped by 20 or more points. I had been up to around 160 in the morn. I was so frustrated. I thank God I finally found somenting that seems to help ( at least for now). I agian want to thank who ever produces this blog
jg
Thanks clk-2, I needed to hear someone else with the spiking problem when not eating. I’m almost totally out of control right now. Byetta holds down my baseline, of all things. If I go without eating past probably about 5 hours, I’ll end up with highs that leave me totally drained after I bring them down with insulin. I do worse from not eating than from eating badly.
Rockin Joey, when do you eat the bread with peanut butter – as a snack before bed? Certain foods seem to help people with the dawn effect if taken before bed. I haven’t found anything that helps me except a good night’s sleep and I rarely have that.
Has anyone ever heard that some herbal teas can affect your blood sugars? For the last couple of days, I’ve been drinking blueberry and orange flavored herb teas and I’ve noticed that my bs has not gone down like it has before. Could this possibly be the reason? Nothing else has changed. Thanks for your input.
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As of June 1, 2008, the ability to post new comments at the Discussion Forums at Diabetes.Blog.com has been disabled. The old comments will remain available for you to read.
Please go to Diabetes Discussions to see new comments and to add your thoughts!
Instructions for posting comments may be found at Getting Started.
Thanks.