Symlin 5: Dec05/Jan06
Bill the diabetesdoc
wwq@diabetesmonitor.com
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Bill and Steph Quick
Today I decided to exercise before taking Symlin and eating breakfast. I just don''t want to take any risks! I''ll check back in from time to time with questions and comments. Glad to find this blog. (Comment this)
No experience injecting away from the abdomen. (Comment this)
(2) Also: if you haven't yet answered our polls to tell us more about yourself, we'd encourage you to please do so:
(Comment this)Hi Deb,
I always inject in my right thigh. I have done so for many years with insulin and continue to do so with Symlin. I estimate that I have injected there over 20,000 times, so the scar tissue has built up to the point that I usually do not feel the injection.
I occasionaly get some bruising and sometimes bend a needle - I get rid of the bruising by doing a better job of moving the injection location around. I also have some trouble with the thickness of the rubber top on Symlin vials. Today''s small, very thin needles just don''t work well with that thick rubber.
The Babe
(Comment this)
Dan,
I read your post about a 24 hour version of Symlin with much interest, as I follow Symlin closely and have no knowledge of this. Several days ago I posted your info on the Yahoo-Finance-AMLN message board. The response I got was from a medical professional who also had never heard of a 24 hour version.
There is a technical reason that a 24 hour version may not be feasible. Symlin (a mimetic of amylin) has a 1/2 life of 48 minutes - that is why many of us start getting hungry about 3 hours after injecting. Amylin (the natural version) has a half life of even less than 48 minutes.
Your body *** has never had *** a 24 hour version. In a normal person, amylin comes from the beta cells in your pancreas "as needed" - which is also true of insulin in a normal person - they both come from the beta cells.
Perhaps you can give us some references on the planned 24 hour version of Symlin.
The overall tone of your post comes under the heading of "condemning with faint praise". Does Symlin just not work for you or ... ?
The Babe
(Comment this)
I take synthroid and have had great success w symlin. I take the synthroid at 700, eat and symlin at 7:45 nd insulin at 800. I havent had sny problems.
I called Amylin about the 24 hour symlin. They said they had no idea what I was talking about. They said they were beginning trials for 24 hour Byetta, but no plans for Symlin. I am curious if there is more info on the 24 hr Symlin.
Do you guys eat a snack when taking Sylin or just a meal every 3-4 hours? Thanks! Alicia (Comment this)
Alicia (Comment this)
I had my first symlin injection today! I really wanted my endo to give me the byetta, but he said no since I am type 1 insulin dependent.
I find if I am extremly disciplined and structured, my b.g. stay in the good range. If I have even the slightest stress (good or not so good) my b.g.s begin to bounce up and down.
Glad to have this support group! (Comment this)
Thanks for the tip as well. I woke up at 6 today and took my Synthroid, did Symlin at 6:50 and ate at 7, insulin at 7:15 and exercise at 7:45.
Today, I moved up to 5u from 2.5. Wow, I felt full in the middle of breakfast. This is going to be interesting!
(Comment this)
One thing I noticed right away with the week 2 dose today is that I felt and stayed full very quickly compared to the week 1 dose.
I haven''t really lost weight yet, but it''s common and I can see why.
Good luck!
(Comment this)
I have been on symlin 10u now for 3 days. I was afraid of the lows also, but so far so good. I did wake up about 4 am today with 101 reading, but I was not having my typical low feeling. I ate a banana and a few hours later my b.g. was 130. My night and early morning b.g. are normally about 160-180. Needless to say, I am thrilled.
Also, I am not having severe side effects only a little nausea and light headache shortly after injecting.
I have not noticed any weight loss after 3 days, but symlin has decreased my appeite tremendously.
Sarah, cheers to you for your intense exercise routine. I am very active, but certainly not intense. I really feared the lows, but have not had a critical drop.
I am returning to the pump this week. I can''t take all these injections. (Comment this)
Are you T1 or T2?
(Comment this)
I am type 1. This evening pre dinner I had bg of 83 and did not feel bad at all. I was getting hungry but that is it. My normal lows are about 115 anything below that I get the crushing low feeling.
I am amazed that I am not reacting to the lows, must be the symlin!
My morning to lunch bg continue to be higher than I like. I may need to add a little more insulin into my am dose.
I have lost a couple lbs. thank goodness! (Comment this)
Deb,
Are you on a low-carb diet? There is a technical reason that could have something to do with your lack of energy.
My "target" bg is 85. I start getting "signals" in the 60s.
The Babe (Comment this)
Ecuador,
The "Dawn Phenomenon" causes many people to have bg problems during the morning. I have to add 18 units of Humalog each morning just to offset it. Obviously the dose varies by individual.
The Babe (Comment this)
(2) Also: if you haven't yet answered our polls to tell us more about yourself, we'd encourage you to please do so:
(Comment this)I started running again, right after I had breakfast and Symlin. I felt real nautious and had to stop. Normally I do just fine. I do much better working out before I take my shot (and food). My blood sugars don''t seem to drop too much. I have power gel just in case and I alwayse use it if I am working out aerobically more than 40 min.
As you gain tighter control of your bloodsugars, you will be able to go much lower before you start feeling symptons. -Not that this is a good thing.
One pointer for everyone starting, go with the longest needle you can. I started w/ the short ones. I bruised and had rashes all up and down my leg. I read in an earlier post to try a longer needle (which didn''t sound like fun). I switched to the longer ones and the burning has lessened and the bruising is much less frequent.
:) Alicia (Comment this)
I have gone to lower carbs and "good" carbs. I try to follow along the Glycemic Index diet (by Rick Gallop). I have to be careful because I adopted 3 children 2 years ago and they were extremely malnourished (my son, 9, actually missed a growth spurt and weighed only 45 pounds). I have to add carbs to their diet and I HATE cooking separate meals (nor do I have the time). For those that are wondering, the kids are all responding well, growing and becoming normal, obnoxious kids ;-). Anyways, I don''t notice a difference in my energy level, unless its a total carb pig-out, then I''m very tired. (Comment this)
It is so nice to run into someone else who is a diabetic who exercises strenuously! I would love to get some more hints about how you manage your sugars while exercising. I think I will more than likely have to put off running at least a week when I start the symlin. I hate to do that because the first few runs can be pretty painful after taking even a short break. As it stands now I will be starting the symlin in 3 weeks. It is kind of a count down, well it is a count down for me, and I am very excited. Ive had to take a break from running the past week anyhow because I sprained a joint in my back but im hoping that ultimately, the symlin will help me over the 6-7 mile wall my body reaches, where my bs drops faster than I can replace the sugar. I just found out about this stuff called gu that I am going to try, once i actually am healed enough to get out again. I love reading about all of the symlin experiences on here. Keep it up everyone, it is great! (Comment this)
It seemed for me Symlin helped exercising in the fact that I lost 10 pounds. That doesn''t seem like a lot, but it sure makes running easier. I haven''t tried my long workouts yet on Symlin. We do that on our bikes when the weather is nice. Keep us posted when you get to start. This is almost a "miracle drug" with everything it has done for me. (Comment this)
I have a sports chiropractor, and we''ve been working for quite some time to try and maneuver some weight loss. It is amazing that I can run 6 miles five times a week eating 1600 calories a day and not lose weight! Especially considering that at my weight of 169, a 6 mile run burns well over 600 calories. It''s nuts! That is one thing my endo pointed out specifically for me is that if it should help me lose that final ten lbs, which is all she''d really like to see me lose, and then bring my a1c down hopefully around 1 point, from 6.9 to 5.9, w hich in her view that entire scenario would be perfect for me. Im so excited to get started and get going on this. Im planning on registering for an earth day race for may which is 14 miles. It may be wishful thinking to try and run that far without hitting my diabetic wall, but perhaps with the symlin added in, the help from my sports therapist and my endo, i can make it happen!
(Comment this)
I ran a half marathon and I can give you pointers on blood sugar control or at least what worked for me. It sounds like you are dedicated! I know they want the discussion to stay on Symlin on this post. If you have time email me at abpollan@cox.net.
Alicia (Comment this)
(2) Also: if you haven't yet answered our polls to tell us more about yourself, we'd encourage you to please do so:
(Comment this)so heres what works for me:
test blood,take symlin- 10 units
wait 10 minutes, then eat meal
wait 1 hour test blood and give insulin.
I usually work out in the evening 1-2 hours after meal.
hope this helps...
Ben (Comment this)
Jessica Miller (Comment this)
Jessica,
True confession time: I may have to turn over to you the position of "Symlin poster child" on this board!! And yes, I am frustrated.
During the first 6 weeks I was on a serious "low carb" diet and lost so much weight (36#) that AMLN listed me on their safety report to FDA as an "adverse event".
I then switched to a "balanced diet". I feel better (more energy and the "magic feeling") but the weight loss stopped. I then travelled from late Sep until early Dec, then came the holidays. You are "right on" - for me it was impossible to lose/hold my weight during that time frame.
The last time I checked I have lost 25# since starting Symlin on 27 June 05. I can''t weigh or exerecise now because I am wearing a huge surgical boot.
I am treating that Sep > Jan time frame as a "plateau". I will now be home for several months (I am retired) and am close to being back into my Symlin routine. (It take me about 4 - 5 days to do that).
I do not normally have the "full" sensation, but I have no trouble with eating between meals - except in the evening -does that sound familiar?
The Babe
(Comment this)
thanks
jill (Comment this)
Jill,
My experience is that bs will rise related to the time you get up, not when you eat - this is the "Dawn Phenomenon" at work. It is caused by your liver adding "stored" sugar to your blood. I think it is independent of when - or if -you eat breakfast. (Think back to the early days of man - get up in the morning and find something to eat ... or maybe not).
I find that my morning "get up" blood sugar has a lot to do with what I ate the day before - heavy dinner -vs- light dinner, evening snacks or not, etc. A very heavy lunch (like Thanksgiving) even seems to make a difference.
When I was taking my "lab" approach to Symlin during the first 3 months, I sometimes felt that I was trying to learn "too much". (One day I did 23 blood tests!!) I now test - take Symlin - eat - wait a while - take Humalog. Since I do not take Humalog between meals, there isn''t much I can do to change my bs between meals anyway.
I am now at 3 - 4 blood tests a day. My left ring finger, where I do all of my tests, can handle this ok. It sure did not like 23 a day!!!
I realize that I may not have provided a "direct" answer, but the info may be helpful.
The Babe
(Comment this)
jill (Comment this)
(2) Also: if you haven't yet answered our polls to tell us more about yourself, we'd encourage you to please do so:
(Comment this)Can anyone tell me more about Symlin? Can it be taken with Lantus, Metformin or Novolog?
I want to thank everyone for their postings. I am learning an awful lot thanks to you great people!
Terri (Comment this)
Thanks for all the sharing on this blog - most helpful.
Nancy (Comment this)
I'm type 1 and have been on the pump for 5 yrs. sounds like you may need to wait a while before bolusing for a meal. I had the same problems- low Sugar the first hour after symlin injection/ insulin bolus. Then my Blood sugar would rise 2 hrs after meal/symlin/ insulin.
Heres what I do to avoid lows right after symlin and highs hours after symlin..
1. I test, take symlin and then eat.
2. I wait about 45min-1 hour then I test again and bolus my insulin.
I have had great control with this system, and have avoided the extreme lows I was experiencing at first. I found that my body does not need the insulin while the symlin is at full strength.
good luck stick with it. (Comment this)
You need to look at what your overall goals are, because we are all different and react to Symlin differently. Take from this blog those things that work for you and don't forget to let us all know how it works for you, we all learn from each other. I am inspired by the lessons shared here to honestly keep working on getting better control. (Comment this)
Megan,
I went from 3 months on Symlin at home -to- 3 months on Symlin while traveling - as close to a black & white, yes/no, either-or scenario as you could choreograph.
I dislike being this blunt, but your "call schedule" (like my travel schedule) is the worst thing you can do to your current health situation (and your future family plans).
It appears that it is time for you to do a hard-core priority check.
The Babe
(Comment this)
Thanks for the input. I'm not on call every day-which is why I (along with my doctor) don't see it as a negative. I work 8-10 call days a month-about 1 or 2 of those end up being 24 hour shifts. The rest of the time, my job is a regular 8-5 job with the option of working from home and great flexibility-all of which are reasons I love my job. The biggest problem, is just trying to control my blood sugars during the 24 hour call-which as I said is only an average of 2x a month. If it was more than that, I would totally agree that it was bad for my health. I'm very diligent about testing my blood sugar while on call-if I'm up 24 hours, my alarm is set for every 2-3 hours to remind me to test and eat a snack if needed. It is normally the day of recovery (Sleeping) that is difficult because I end up sleeping through lunch and missing a dose of Symlin. My A1C is actually fairly low (6.7) despite my oncall schedule-just working on getting it lower before starting to try and get pregnant. At this time, I along with my healthcare team and husband, do not feel my job negatively impacts my health but it is certainly something we look at closely and requires much more planning and testing on my part. My attitude with diabetes has always been that it will not stop me from doing anything-I love my job and while managing my diabetes with my job is difficult, it is not impossible. The good thing is I work in the healthcare industry so stopping to test my blood sugar is not only understood my all my colleagues, but appreciated. Thank you very much for your honesty-I do appreciate it. With the help of my healthcare team, colleagues and hard work on my part, I do manage my blood sugars well-I'm just not satisfied with "good" right now and am striving for tighter control. The nice thing about a 24 hour shift is that I test quite often-being awake for a whole day will do that to you! Thank you again for your input. (Comment this)
jill (Comment this)
Jill,
Congratulations on the improved A1c!!
Symlin cannot cause low blood sugar - it is caused by insulin.
You might want to call your doc about reducing your insulin.
The Babe
PS - By the way, "severe lows" implies that you have been in the hospital recently for low blood sugar/hypoglycemia in which case your insulin should have already been reduced.
(Comment this)